While you're all patiently (or impatiently) waiting for the 4.12 tier list to arrive, I figured this an opportune time to opine on a long overdue explanation of Warwick's move to God Tier top and jungle.
We all know his win rate has been very high lately, so I won't beat that fact to death.
Well...maybe just a little
Instead, let's go over his latest indirect buffs and then some pros and cons.
Improvements
- Attack Speed Changes: With the change in attack speed items and blood thirster nerfs, no doubt you've noticed by now that certain champions that benefit such as Tristana and Kog'maw are now at the top of their game. Well Warwick has a 40% teamwide attack speed buff.
- Blade of the Ruined King Changes: The percentage damage on Blade of the Ruined King was increased and lifesteal/active nerfed.
- Warwick's ultimate procs at the same speed, and thus simply does more damage with this tweak. The active nerfs aided him more than hurt as they were more useful for AD carries to use to kite him.
- Feral Flare (Jungle Only): While nerfed, based on the win rates with feral flare, this item has still been a huge boon for Warwick, and improves his jungling immensely.
- Top Lane Nerfs: Although Warwick could always hold his own against most of the biggest top laners in the game, nerfs on champions like Jax and Renekton have definitely helped him tremendously to survive through to level 6.
- Doran Blade Spell Vamp: The revert back to percentage based Doran blade lifesteal allows Warwick to synergize perfectly into late game with his passive.
- Wits End Buffed: The solid 8% attack speed increase on Wits End (one of his core items) aided him tremendously.
With that quick summary, let's go over some Warwick pros that come with the character:
Pros
- Insane Sustain: Not sure if this needs explaining, but as he doesn't waveclear very hard and his harass is single target, this means that freezing the lane and regenerating health via his passives and Doran Blade/Doran Shield is very easy for him (and always has been).
- Mind-numbingly simple Ganks: As both a top laner and a jungler, Warwick's level 6 gank is absolutely incredible and almost impossible to avoid. As an added bonus for his top lane, once the enemy drops below a certain health level, Warwick gets his E bonus permanently and also allows him to run away from any jungler that comes to gank.
- Amazing Team Buff: With most junglers playing as auto attack heavy champions and AD carries packing infinity edge again, attack speed from his W gives him a huge advantage.
- Great Baron Control: When the enemy team barons, they always have to avoid having any one member dropping too low, even with pink wards and sweeper. This means that sneaking a 2-3 man baron is almost impossible with an enemy Warwick.
- Incredibly Tanky: After getting Frozen Heart and Spirit Visage, Warwick is almost impossible to kill, even with ignite.
- Mind Games: Often, one champion on the enemy team (such as Katarina) will want to wait until Warwick ults before jumping into the fight. However, by not using his ultimate, Warwick can effectively prevent them from ever engaging until it's too late.
- Forced QSS: While QSS can counter his ultimate, as a magic resist item, it becomes completely useless against AD carries (which happen to be extremely strong right now). Also, as it's usually built on glass cannons, it greatly reduces their damage output. Meanwhile, you can just ult someone else.
- Easy Telegraphing: When Warwick engages, it's very very obvious. This allows your team to follow up instantly. Speaking of instantly, his ultimate is instant, so it's also very easy to jump in when an important cooldown is down or someone is out of position.
Cons
- Weak pre-6 ganks and gank support.
- While his pre-level 6 ganks and gank support are weak both in jungle and in lane, his 2v2 ability is actually quite high due to his attack speed buff and heal. This means that while it's easy to run from him most of the time, if he counters a gank and they still want to fight, he can still come out on top.
- No AOE damage
- Not really a big deal. Someone else can provide it.
- Low damage
- After building a Blade of the Ruined King and a Wits End (I don't suggest doing both right after one another), Warwick's ultimate easily shreds through any squishy.
- Easy to counterjungle
- While it's true that Warwick can't do much to prevent a smite attempt on his buffs, enemy junglers can't exactly kill him quickly either. As long as you smite well, it shouldn't be much of an issue for your teammates to come in for a free kill.
- Weak against ranged top laners
- This one's Warwick's one weakness that's difficult to overcome. However, if you can freeze your lane closer to tower and survive to 6, he can still grab some easy kills and make for a comeback.
Tl;dr: Indirect buffs via item changes and nerfs to other champions in the same role have made him amazing. He's also really easy to play.Agree/disagree? Comment below!
Thanks for this. Makes some sense.
ReplyDeleteThis is actually a really good explanation, and I think some people's ww hate will be reconsidered.
ReplyDeleteMakes sense. You should account for Warwick's win rate in game where he never gets feral, though - pretty much every jungler has a good win rate in games where they get all 30 stacks.
ReplyDeleteWarwick is best for splitpushing/sieging comps
ReplyDeleteAmumu works well with AOE wombo-combo comps (Orianna or Katarina = Free win)
Rammus counters enemy AD comps (4 or 5 AD champs), and junglers like Yi, Tryndamere and Xin.
Use this knoledge to your advantage,learn to use those 3 junglers, as they are massively underused and underrated, hence their huge win-rate
you can not outsustain trundle if he plays agresivly (personal experience)
ReplyDeleteI agree with your explanaiton SSJ, but him being a lot higher than Skarner while Skarner provides almost all of the same strengths and more CC isn't right.
ReplyDeleteI like to start with doran ring in top lane, basically farming with it will give you limitless mana, so after LV 4 you can recover all the poke off most top laners with your Q in a minion or in the enemy itself.
ReplyDeleteLook at elobuff, it does seem like Warwick is going to come back into the meta soon.
ReplyDeleteGreetings from www.lol-academy.net
skarner has lower sustain and doesnt buff his team
ReplyDeleteTrue but having that much more CC shouldn't make Skarner lowered.
ReplyDeleteskarner ulti is a bit lower range and the AS buff ww offers is boarderline op (often overlooked) 40% AS for every1
ReplyDeleteskarner wudnt b too far behind ww, but ww is superior
The range is lower but he can drag the opponent to the middle of his team (hence why I think Skarner's ult is better) but you are right with is AS buff, it needs to be nerfed/removed of which Riot has planned with a rework(don't you love the reworks -_____-):
ReplyDeleteWarwick - Ability Rework
General
More base mana
More base mana regen
Eternal Thirst
REVISED INNATE: Warwick's basic attacks deal 2% of the target's maximum health as bonus magic damage, restore 5 (+0.9-1.8% bonus health)health and grant Warwick one stack of Eternal Thirst. Stacking up to 10 times, each stack of Eternal Thirst increasing the healing of this effect by 11% for a maximum of 10.5 (+1.89-3.78% bonus health). Healing is halved against minions. Eternal Thirst stacks decay at a rate of 1 every 0.25 seconds if Warwick has not damaged an enemy in the last 1.8 seconds.
Hungering Strikes
REVISED ACTIVE: Warwick slashes the target enemy twice, for a total of 80 / 110 / 140 / 170 / 200 (+ 60% AP) magic damage. Each slash applies on-hit effects. The healing from Eternal Thirst is increased by 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100% for the two slashes, stacking additively with Eternal Thirst stacks.
Cooldown: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5 seconds
Cost: 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60 mana
Range: Technically reduced, but it now functions like a basic attack (edge-to-edge, instead of center-to-center).
Howl
NEW ACTIVE: Warwick unleashes a howl that deals 70 / 100 / 130 / 160 / 190 (+ 60% AP) magic damage and terrifies surrounding enemies, causing them to turn and flee from the point-of-cast for 0.75 seconds. Damaged enemies are also slowed for X / X / X / X / X seconds.
Cooldown: 12 / 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 seconds
Cost: 50 mana
Hamstring
NEW PASSIVE - BLOOD SCENT: Warwick gains sight of nearby enemy champions and large monsters with less than 50% health (range is lower for neutral monsters). While moving toward an enemy revealed by Blood Scent, Warwick gains X% bonus movement speed. This bonus is increased as the target's health gets lower, based on the nearest applicable enemy. Enemies are made aware that Warwick can see them when he comes within a fixed range.
Similar to Orianna's ball, Warwick will have an indicator that points to the nearest low-health enemy.
NEW ACTIVE: Warwick dashes toward the target location and then returns to the point of cast, dealing 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 (+ 30% AP) magic damage to enemies hit in both directions and slowing them by 95% for 0.25 seconds. The damage and slow can be applied twice, for a maximum of 140 / 160 / 180 / 200 / 220 (+ 60% AP) magic damage.
Hamstring can be interrupted by movement-inhibiting crowd control effects, as with Sweeping Blade. Warwick can activate Howl, Items/Summoner Spells (excluding Flash and Teleport) and interact with Dark Passage during Hamstring.
Cooldown: 16 seconds
Cost: 50 mana
Finite Duress
REVISED ACTIVE: Warwick charges forward, stopping only when he collides with an enemy champion. The unfortunate enemy is stunned for 2.5 seconds while Warwick slashes them 6 times, dealing a total of 180 / 240 / 300 (+ 90% AP) magic damage, while Warwick gains 20% damage reduction. Each slash will trigger on-hit effects. The cooldown of Infinite Duress is reduced if Warwick successfully hits an enemy.
Base Cooldown: 130 / 115 / 100 seconds
Cost: 100 mana
And the explanation of Wukong god tier apart the win ratio?
ReplyDeleteWukong is stronger than ever now because he has insane burst and shutting down adcs is more important than ever, and wukong does enough damage to oneshot them mid-late game. As a wukong main it makes me sad to see him higher in top and jungle than in mid lane, because he is much better mid. Even I would say top lane wukong isn't really god tier but high tier 1, because his matchups tend not to be favourable. Same with jungle wukong, high tier 1 because you don't get the gold you you get in lane, and it's harder to oneshot adcs, because jungle wukong tends to build more tanky unless fed, and in the jungle his early game is weak gank-wise. Only place I really thing he is overwhelming in is mid, because he shlts on squishy aps, roams well post 6, and has an extremely strong late game, also it is the most comfortable place to build full ad to oneshot those squishies(which you should be doing as wukong).
ReplyDeletethere is one counter to the katarina amumu combo, kassadin, u can still cast abilities in amumu's ult, so kassadin can stom katarina's ult.
ReplyDeleteKassadin lost his silence...
ReplyDeleteBut his Q still interrupts channels.
ReplyDeletei don't think that ww should be a "god tier" top laner. i have played top for a while now and there are much better picks that don't need to have kills such as jax and irelia who would be happy to have all the farm that they can while not being destroyed in lane witch ww will not do because he is not aggressive in lane and once they have enough farm that will give enough money to get items they should be wrecking everything. ww will probably not be able to kill everything and be tanky enough to survive in fights.Say at like 25 minutes in a game with perfect farm(should be 250 cs) say on jax that would be about 6.5k gold would be enough for a few items to snowball into late game plus his scaling is outstanding like trundle they should be "god tier" because they destroy team fights and will be super tanky and have amazing damage to snowball the whole game even if behind it is possible.\
ReplyDeleteThe problem isn't that there are better solo lane picks, dude. The problem is that Warwick is a teamfighting champion. At L18 with a Frozen Heart and his W, he subtracts 20% attack speed from opponent and buffs teammates by 40%. That's a 60% attack speed differential.
ReplyDeleteWW top, can provoke an Gankplank counter pick, and GP will have easy freefarm and his ulti is global and can help team while ww is useless sitting in his top w8ing for another Barrel from gp, also GP lategame ownz hard and he has a very decent buff for the allie 2 as ms+ad. + GP is ungankable with his fruit as well + he outdmg ww hard ! i never lost as gp top, and in most cases they try hard to gank me with jungler + mid and my team can take easy bot + drags + towers, Warwick top god tier is stupid !
ReplyDeleteNever lost as GP vs WW! but i would pick GP lately else ww will get send to jungle and u will face a pantheon or fiora which a horrible counter, if they play them right <3
ReplyDeleteWW provides nothing other than an ulti past laning phase, has one damaging ability and after his ult is down he has auto attacks and that's his entire kit. He is easily on of the worst top laners in the game for team fights hands down because he is literally an R key that can disable one person while disabling himself. The fact that he is even considered above Tier 2 blows my mind he can instantly be counter picked by anyone in the game with ranged abilities or any dueling power at all AKA jax, renek etc.
ReplyDeleteI think WW's high win rate is mostly due to his jungle, not necessarily his top.
ReplyDeleteSo you build both Bork and Wits End on WW?
ReplyDeleteyea, Wits End as your first damage option, and BOTK as the 5th item when the % damage is higher
ReplyDeleteYeah, because giving your whole team a recurve bow, map hax, and pretty decent damage after deleting their ADC does nothing for the team. Did I forget to mention he doesn't really die in a team fight without people blowing 2-3 ults on him alone? Well, now I did. Also, having played Warwick top in ranked longer than you have likely played LoL, he is an excellent duelist, due to his immense sustain while dealing reasonable damage. Jax is fairly easy to shut down in my experience, and Renekton has fallen out of the meta really hard, due to the fact that he has no late game. He just dies, which is even less than what Warwick does by your logic. In lane, Warwick does lose to most champions EARLY. After 6, it's fair game. Jax is 50/50 for win-lose, and you outscale Renekton without really even trying, and Renekton has no way of scaling into late game, because he can't kill you effectively. Though range is effective against Warwick pre-6, most ranged champions can't kite him well enough. You can land 2-3 auto attacks while backing up before he can use his Q on you, but then you're down ~250 HP, and he's down ~100 mana, while probably being up some health. If you're at half health, it's pretty easy to Ult, AA+Q for an easy kill. You could argue that he is only tier 1, but putting Renekton above him because he's a lane bully (by your logic, Darius is god tier, yes?) and Jax above him because...? Low win rate and demanding a large amount of farm/feed to be reasonably threatening to the rest of your team? I give up.
ReplyDeletewat u gotta realize is that ww is one of those champs that just wont die late game. i see myself giving waaay more utility while being super tanky and just eliminating anyone with my ultimate. ww ult is like the easiest pick machine late game cuz there is almost no way to work around it (Qss) lol. the instant blink and his q doing buttloads of damage are really his only weopons but ww as a tanky bruiser uses them so efficiently i play ww more in normals than in ranked but my ranked win rate atm with WW is 11-0 that is mostly jungle but i think 4 of those wins are from top lane. Seriously ww is a champ that will just win pick every time. my summoner name is "Xhead" <-- if u want to confirm my ww rapage
ReplyDeletei hope this is a hoax :(
ReplyDeleteAs a top lane Wukong main I can't agree that he doesn't deserve god tier in top. His ability to burst even tanky enemies and practically ignore whatever armor they can muster in the first 15 minutes with a brutalizer and his Q, along with some help from masteries, makes him stand well against any of the top lane tanks, but his strengths don't end there. Wukong has very strong scaling as well as high flats (as you should well know), and so he bursts down most top laners in two sets of his e q combo for either a kill or shoving them out of lane entirely. That's free farm along with usually a couple kills that got you it. His innate tank stats make him harder to break down by other AD top laners while he still generates a rather large amount of damage with a good skill ceiling and a lot of chances to out-play the lane opponent.
ReplyDeleteI don't know much about mid lane Wukong. Mid lane itself is an entirely different game from top lane in my experiences, and it's not one I enjoy so for the most part I keep away from it. I can't comment on whether or not it's strong so I'll take your word for it as one Wukong main to another.
As for jungle Wukong, your job isn't to burst anymore. Your job is to jump in, do half the adc's health and then knock them up for a second long enough that someone else can use 1, maybe 2 abilities to finish them off. It helps that the very knock up used to trap the adc also happens to knock up and disrupt every other person on their team trying to help the adc. Yes he does tank out more than a top or mid lane Wukong, but when you have an ult with an 800 flat and a 440% AD ratio, I don't think they'll have an easy time even if you're only running 1 or 2 AD items. his AD scales instead of bonus AD scales are part of what makes him such an effective tank, especially since they're above the 100% mark.
So, anyone else love that feeling when someone is stupid enough to die from your clone?
What i'm saying about top lane wukong is from my experience. The q nerf was huge agaist tank(only idiots max it first anyways) and I feel I can't shut down a nasus in lane anymore (which previously was hard, but not impossible). The reason I don't really think he's a god anymore is because renekton (if you're truly a wukong top main you know what i'm talking about). In top lane against tanky opponents wukong's laning phase is really a hit or miss, he essentially either gets a kill level 2 where he is insanely strong or has a hard time killing them at all after that. Yes, his burst is insane but tanks have always been known to counter burst damage so if you are busrting tanks as wukong, you are probably extremely fed.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you mean about mid lane an entirely different game that you don't enjoy?
I'm not saying jungle wukong is bad or anything because he builds tankier, but I think you would agree that he shines in lane because of his insanely good scaling with gold and damage items.
Btw can you share me your build for wukong, lane or jungle? I'd like to know how some other wukong mains build.
Speaking of dieing from clones, I once all ined a darius, died, but left my clone out at the last second, and with a sliver of health, the darius dies to my clone damage.
Tanks are squishy early which is why I say kill them early or it will be harder. Wukong isn't a tank killer, I can't tell you how many games I've lost because I though I could duel tanks, he gets progessively worse against tanks as the games go, he's all about oneshotting squishies. If you are gold right now and playing him as a tank killer, you could easily be at least platinum if you switch you're targets to squishies. I agree, when they get too tanky you should just group because wukong excels in teamfights.
ReplyDeleteTop and mid are kind of different games, true bush mechanics, roaming, etc.
I'll give you some corrections on your build. Never ever build tank in laing phase if you are not 0/10 (even then I go damage), wukong doesn't even need to be tanky, he just needs raw ad for the ass-kicking dps. Rush hydra, lw and bc. Most of you're defense items are good, banshees, ga and randuins are excellent choices. Triforce is pretty expensive and rarely a buy since raw ad is almost always better (maybe if you wanna go 4 dps items triforce is an option). I'll correct you on bloodthirster. It isn't really a viable item on wukong at all. Wukong doesn't need lifesteal past laning phase and the item isn't even nearly cost efficient. I used to build it every game when it gave 100 ad and costed less, but now the item is outclassed. The changes made bt much worse on wukong. Maw is great on him. He doesn't necessarily need more than 2 offense items but it is much better to get at least 3 (I've even sold my boots for an IE one time for 6, it was a troll game though). Also for boots you can go tabis or mercs, but mobis and swifties are often the best since they help you get more distance in your decoy. Play wukong as an assassin, not a tanky dps champ. Look up allorim and read his guide, best top lane wukong you could ever ask for.
Dan Dinh buys two doran rings.
ReplyDeleteBloodthirster is not nearly as good as before, I used to always build it I know what im talking about (100 ad is broken on wukong). Btw, yes jarvan and leesin can do nice damage, but wukong's ad scaling is much better than there's (wukong's combo has a 6.3 ad ratio, j4 has a 2.5, lee has 4.8). I'm not saying to build mobis/swifties as a must, I go tabis and mercs all the time. I go mobis/swifties when the team is playing safe and I need to make desperate plays (a lot of games where i'm ahead). They are not boots for assassin wukong, they even have the same effect for full tank wukong, more distance while invisible will equal a better engage. I usually get defensive items late game(1 if fed, 2 if not), i'm not saying defense items are bad at all. Randuins, ga, banshees, even warmogs are amazing defense items on wukong. Just you rarely need defense early game (unless they have super fed champ that can almost 1v5), late game it helps a lot. I'll admit, I've lost games because of the full glasscannon teams so if your team needs a tank, wukong can do it a lot better than most other glass cannons. Telling wu that isn't the same as jax, because wukong's build path is a bit more flexible, I've even went full tank before and did fine. Like I said before and I'll say it again, look up allorim, he's probably the best top lane wukong there is and check out his guide, watch his stream as well. He goes in and out of challenger and he generally builds full damage even against a squishy team. Building defense isn't bad on wukong, it just isn't worth delaying his power spike early game, which is why i said it's mostly late game because that's where tank items are most significant. Btw, only time I go 5 offensive items is when our team is snowballing and I could almost go ap wukong those games (zhonyas while spinning is fun, I get it in troll games). Wukong hydra and lw is often enough to oneshot the adc, I just like building more to oneshot over the heals, shields, lulu ults, and get black cleaver 3rd mostly to help my adc do more damage, not because I have problems oneshotting the adc, I even sometimes go defense items instead. Btw, Never build sunfire cape on lane wukong, randuins is much better.
ReplyDeleteYea, trinity is definetly a, "my adc does no damage, I have to build 4 offensive item" kind of thing, it's not so optimal. While crit generally sucks on wukong, because you don't need to rely on luck when you can oneshot someone with pure ad items like hydra, It can be fun as I once oneshotted a lucian by a lucky e-q crit.
ReplyDeleteIf you have time, I would suggest watching allorims stream, he teaches you how to beat every top matchup (except the one matchup you don't, renekton) and also teaches some tricks and techniques to help you're wukong play. Because of him I've been crushing all the top lane matchups I used to have trouble with, such as riven, darius, lee sin, nasus, etc. I remember the days before wukong was nerfed, it was so good. Now I can't say he has a 4.8 ad ratio on his ult(sad, i know). Wukong is still insane though because his high base damages and ratios. If thats true about gnar, I can't wait to vs all of them, squishy champs are literally a joke for wukong.
Btw, why 3 cleavers on wukong, I thought the passives didn't stack, just sounds like a fail of a troll build, do the passives stack? When I troll I build zhonyas, you should try it next stomp game, spinning while invulnerable is so fun. Btw, Idek if 3 offense items is the best for top lane, I just build it because I always do it mid where it's much easier to do. Maybe it might be better to build 2 offense items in top lane situationally, I've had the no tanks on team problem as well.
I agree gettting triforce is a more "i am the only person who does damage, gotta get 4 offense items" type of thing, otherwise it is outclassed by raw ad. Watch allorim's stream as well, he teaches how to beat every top laner, except for the only matchup you don't beat, the dreaded renekton, and now i can crush all the rivens, dariuses, etc that i vs. I generally build 3-4 offense items mid lane, but I can easily understand why build 2 top lane, he does high damage anyways with that. I've actually lost games because no tanks on the team, and wukong can tank better than most champs (besides basically every champ meant to be a tank). 3 cleavers doesn't sound fun at all, I don't believe the passive stacks, if it does correct me. You should try zhonyas, its the best troll item on wukong, u spin while invulnerable.
ReplyDeletei love ww for his sustain but his lack of range hurts
ReplyDeleteWWs late game is literally unstoppable if u know how to build. he gets decently tanky, 400 health or so, while still dealing damage to champs but the real problem is his sustain. Against any burst assassin or mage, he can survive the burst and just fight it out while they have cds and literally heal to full.
ReplyDeleteWarwick can carry. I played a not very good game today, I was WW, and our bot was destroyed due to the lack of the game experience of our Blitz (also we had Teemo instead of normal adc). Enemy team had more money, and destroyed 2 our inhibs twice, BUT we managed to kill them, I always focused Yi of Ahri, then push, my WW was very-very tanky to the late game, and I tank turrets easily, with Warwick's W we destroyed 2 enemy inhibs, then retreat, I take Baron solo, then we push mid and GG. I got most of the kills in that game, my stats was 18/10/16.
ReplyDeleteLack of range? Do you know how mind shatteringly op it would be if a ranged champ got sustain on ww's level?
ReplyDeleteNo one really plays Kassadin anymore.
ReplyDeleteWhat is QSS and telegraphing? Also what is AOE? How do you free harass? What are CD's? AA+S?
ReplyDeleteNot sure if you're trolling or you really dont know what that means, but anyway, here it is !
ReplyDeleteQSS= Quicksilver Sash, its an item that removes debuffs
AoE means Area of Effect, it means an ability that deals zone damage or zone debuff
Free harass will depend on your positioning tbh, if you know how to position yourself for trades, you can trade and move away without getting attacked back, this is free harass. It cas also happen if you're hitting the enemy the moment he tries to last hit
CD means Cooldown
AA means Auto Attack
WarWick is Broken right now btw. End of Story
ReplyDeleteI will miss the old ww... he got me out of bronze, and will get me out of silver too ^^
ReplyDeletewarwick is crap. If you team doesn't win lane he can't help. Just like any afk farm jungler. yi, udyr, warwick.
ReplyDeleteI would ban them in ranked just so they aren't played on my team. Especially the way junglers have presence in this current meta
Warwick top is so awesome! this wolf carried me to gold in a month :D hes sustain and pick off potential is insane and lategame he just oneshot the adc with ult and q
ReplyDeleteNow that he has been nerfed is he still god tier?
ReplyDeleteNow he's tier 1
ReplyDelete